how many leather jackets do you own?

i acquired my fifth leather jacket today. the deal was really
too good to pass up. i'm glad now that i didn't buy it a week
ago. Express Men's having a sale for 30% off outerwear. what
this means is that the $348 jacket i bought today, only cost
$243. i couldn't believe it! over $100 off!
so now i have two Structure jackets, two Express jackets, and one
classic motorcycle jacket (i believe it was made by a company
called First Leather, or something).
now if it would only get cold here, i could wear it!
david
––
http://tinyurl.com/cq76v (ebay sales)
http://www.cafepress.com/derbarbier
http://shops.half.ebay.com/derbarbier

I think I own an entire herd of cattle, I have,
2 black
2 tan
2 brown
1 bronze
1 red
I love leather!
and fur
I have 1 full length mink
1 stroller
1 jacket
and in case you didn't guess, I'm not a charter member of PETA

I have one leather jacket, and I'm really not comfortable owning it; it
was given to me as a gift. Loving animals as I do, I am having a really
conflicted time with LEATHER. I mean, FUR is simply out of the question
– I will never buy it or have anything to do with it on clothing. Fur's
equivalent insulation and warmth is easily available in synthetics now.
But leather .... I wonder, is leather just the remains of the meat we
eat, and thus a useful by–product? OR – do we use animal leather when
we could easily substitute a synthetic? Wearing the dead skins of our
fellow creatures on this Earth bothers me.

zero

2brown suede
black lamb
They're both pretty old, but look great & it's just gotten cold
enough to wear them in the worst state.
The lady at the post office was all over the brown suede one
yesterday and I like her so much I was briefly (briefly) tempted
just to give it to her since she is incredibly nice to me, week after
week, year after year.
––AJ

"AJ" <ajfash...@att.net> wrote in message
news:0tDlf.131316$qk4.113...@bgtnsc05–news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
You should have given it to her. Then you would have had an excuse to buy a
new one. Sort of a two–fer in my book.
cofarb

"cofarb" <do...@cofarb.com> wrote in message
news:K7ydnYTlCeP3mAreRVn–...@adelphia.com...
But I love it and it was a present from MR AJ. Actually an exchange
since he bought me a red lamb jacket that would have been too small
FOR YOU. Nice to know what light my husband sees me in, a
decidedly distorted thin one, lol.
––AJ

"AJ" <ajfash...@att.net> wrote in message
news:xTKlf.132553$qk4.40...@bgtnsc05–news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Ahhhh. I know exactly what you mean. I call it "The Enchanted Cottage
Effect" in honor of a goofy old movie––Robert Young and Dorothy Malone
(McGuire?), who are supposed to be hideously ugly but who see each other as
beautiful when they are inside the cottage. "Blinded by love" is a real
gift. That film is like a car wreck––I *want* to look away, but I just have
to watch.
cofarb

1 leather
2 suede

<mmneely...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:1133592357.990227.75...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
.... neither am I –
22 mouton [= "beaver lamb" in the UK] coats
1 full–length mouton with opossum collar
1 mouton jacket with fox collar
1 3/4 otter coat
1 3/4 muskrat coat

Three leather coats
one heavy, mid–thigh length black Kenneth Cole
one short, very dark brown fitted jacket with lighter brown and
black leather floral cutout designs sewn on the upper arms and
upper back areas
one short black fitted jacket
Three shearling coats (I think this counts as leather)
one very dark brown smooth coat with grey shearling (J Jill)
one very light tan sueded coat with very short white curly shearling
This one isn't as heavy and warm as the other two (my husband mail
ordered this one from New Zealand and I don't remember the company
name)
one medium brown (think the standard Ugg color) coat with light brown
shearling. Has a big shawl collar with laser cut design (Blue
Duck) It's this coat: http://tinyurl.com/8rj5q but I didn't pay
that price for it. It was half price at the Nordstrom store when I
got it over a month ago and it was so soft, warm and shearling
quality was so nice that I wasn't going to pass this one up.

Stacy

Many short jackets, one 3/4 jacket, one knee–length coat, one long coat
that's a mix of real leather and fake shearling. All black.
I'm becoming conflicted about wearing leather. But I'm not ready to
give these away. Or my several leather skirts. Or my custom–made
leather shirt that zips up the back.

you are not a hypocrite.. if you eat beef, you are just maximizing the
rest of the animal
Stevie

"Ruzinthra the Ruki" <ruzint...@ruki.com> wrote in message
news:tde2p15aicte0tsf4dkroq756fbre5v...@4ax.com...
It's too *cold* to wear leather most days now but:
1 light purple pearlized leather (just above knee)
1 black lamb leather (jak)
1 red lamb leather (jak)
1 red lamb leather (waist length)
1 brown lamb leather (wl)
coldfarb

hmm let's see
gap banana colored leather from when they first launched the leather
stuff. think heavy leather, not glossy
a vintage brown suede bomber jacket that I scored for a mere 12
dollars at a rummage sale!
a danier black 3/4 length coat is soft lambskin
a long almost floor length (on most it would be just top of the calves)
burgundy wrap trench coat that is very heavy leather
suede brown coat that cofarb sold me–– it's a very cool coat.. (need to
reattach a button)
burgundy leather blazer from NBL

In article <1133593343.331162.170...@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
connycl...@hotmail.com says...
I'm glad to see someone else who has the same conflicting thoughts on
leather as I do! I don't eat mammals, but I do wear leather shoes and
gloves – makes me feel like a hypocrite, not to mention the cognitive
dissonance. It's kind of like agreeing to disagree with myself. Not
sure it's a question I'll never settle satifactorily in my own brain.
––
Debbie the Dogged das at spamcop dot net
"Poodles are space aliens who think they've disguised
themselves as dogs." – Paghat the Ratgirl

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 21:35:28 GMT, mjoann wrote:
ahmward wrote:
Stevie, the hybrids also currrently cost as much to run as their
non–hybrid counterparts.
We've had an Accord hybrid for about a year, and that hasn't been our
experience.
Beware of "mild hybrid" vs. "full hybrid."
Detroit generally does mild hybrids.
But knowing that you're driving a car that's emitting so much less
pollution is priceless!! That is the best reason to get a hybrid in my
opinion.
Everyone but me is forgetting the geek fun factor.
––
Visit Charlie's Sneaker Pages!
http://sneakers.pair.com/

Charlie Perrin wrote:
When I test drove a Prius, I felt like I was sitting down in front of a
Windows 3x app with a steering wheel. The Accord hybrid is pretty much
like driving a normal car. You can see what the car is doing from
dashboard indicators but it's hard to pay attention to that while
driving. Guess I'm just not geeky enough to appreciate it!
Julianne X

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 14:43:10 –0600, Stevie wrote
(in article <1133642590.783276.131...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>):
I've only got the one leather jacket and I believe it's my first. Far as the
dead animal thing goes, well, that's not even an issue to me. I have no
intentions of not eating meat and leather clothing of all types is part of
regular wear. Gloves in a cold climate like ours is the norm for most people
and I doubt if it crosses many minds, especially when the temps drop down to
minus 30.
But you're right Stevie, if it's maximizing the entire animal, it boils down
to the waste not, want not syndrome...
––
Cheers!
Dennis
Remove 'Elle–Kabong' to reply

"Ruddell" <ruddell'Elle–Kabo...@canada.com> wrote in message
news:0001HW.BFB76B360006C898F0407...@news.sasktel.net...
I have one leather jacket. I was a late blooming leatherette. My father
was a shoe manufacturer so using leather is just part of my life.
Audrey

It's nice to see some AF'er who have problems with leather and fur. I
was vegan for about 5 years and and over the past 5 years have been
introducing more and more animal products into my life (unfortunately).
Still, I only one pair of leather shoes and a secondhand pair of uggs.
We all do what we have to do.
SAndra
Debbie the Dogged wrote:
––
I'm what Willis was talking about.

On 2 Dec 2005 22:45:58 –0800, mmneely...@charter.net choked out
these words:
unless, of course, PETA stands for People Eating Tasty Animals.
david
––
http://tinyurl.com/cq76v (ebay sales)
http://www.cafepress.com/derbarbier
http://shops.half.ebay.com/derbarbier

On Sat, 3 Dec 2005 08:57:32 –0500, "cofarb" <do...@cofarb.com>
choked out these words:
well i'm glad to see that i'm not the only one who likes leather
coats! i was starting to wonder if having five coats was a bit
excessive, but comparatively speaking, it does not seem to be the
case.
to give some more detail:
one of the Structure coats is brown, the other is black (both
have quilted linings).
the first Express jacket is black and has a regular (non–quilted)
lining. and the coat i bought yesterday is black with quilted
lining and comes down about even with the tops of my front
pockets.
here're 2 pics of the new one:
http://bmeworld.com/myneedle/jacket1.jpg
http://bmeworld.com/myneedle/jacket2.jpg
david
––
http://tinyurl.com/cq76v (ebay sales)
http://www.cafepress.com/derbarbier
http://shops.half.ebay.com/derbarbier

On 3 Dec 2005 07:35:11 –0800, "Stevie" <stevie.wil...@gmail.com>
choked out these words:
right after i purchased the coat yesterday, i was strolling thru
Nordies, and noticed a leather (very, very soft – maybe lambskin?
– dunno, didn't check the label) jacket that was butt–ugly.
brand: Faconnable. price: $750. i just don't get it.
david
––
http://tinyurl.com/cq76v (ebay sales)
http://www.cafepress.com/derbarbier
http://shops.half.ebay.com/derbarbier

fur to me is entirely a different issue. That's not esential and not
part of animals that I would eat. I am not vegan but when it comes
right down to living a more holistic life
before I would give up the leather shoes/bags etc
I would make sure that people recycled bottles/cans/papers, stopped
smoking, used more fuel efficient cars (I wish more hybrids were
available), got rid of the SLS and other more problematic additives to
products that are 1)irritating and some that are potential
carcinogens.. also I would like to see people do something more
important like protect rainforests and also global warming which can be
helped by planting more trees .
I could go on but I won't..
I recently did an article for a magazine that was about holistic
beauty.. instead they wanted holistic lifestyle which was infinitely
more educational for me.. and for the ditor who assigned it since she
asked me what was the difference between vegan, organic and holistic..
and I had to use an example of a vegan person who smoked cigarettes..
and a more holistic person who recycled, reused things and chose
wisely on ther products and ingredients.
that certainly opened HER eyes
Stevie

On 6 Dec 2005 09:58:54 –0800, julianne_x wrote:
Everyone but me is forgetting the geek fun factor.
That's the big attraction, the display that indicates what part of the
vehicle is getting power. Not that you'd want to watch it a lot in
Houston traffic, but...
Just as long as they've debugged the Windows 3.x app (they did have to
flash the Prius firmware at least once).
––
Visit Charlie's Sneaker Pages!
http://sneakers.pair.com/

what don't you get? that they priced a gawdawful ugly jacket that much
or that Nordies carried it?
Stevie

oh good grief.. I hear you on the mass transit situation. when I was in
HS I wanted to take the bus to get to my afterschool job but it would
have taken me 90 minutes to go about 5–7 miles.. which is totally
stupid..
Stevie

On 4 Dec 2005 07:12:16 –0800, "Stevie" <stevie.wil...@gmail.com>
choked out these words:
i don't get why someone would want to pay $750 for it.
their jeans alone are $145 – a price i might have paid if they'd
had the style i wanted.
david
––
http://tinyurl.com/cq76v (ebay sales)
http://www.cafepress.com/derbarbier
http://shops.half.ebay.com/derbarbier

On 4 Dec 2005 07:11:16 –0800, "Stevie" wrote:
I'd say "they need to work the logistics on recycling better."
I recycle my cans at work but not the ones at home (alas). Houston
isn't as good as some places I've seen when it comes to recycling
availability.
In Wichita, they had a chain of "reverse vending machines" that ate
aluminum cans and spit out change.
Corporate America has banished them to the smoking shelter. The next
step is to push them off the company premises.
OTOH, some hospitals actually let the ambulatory patients get outside
and smoke.
I don't know if they peanut–butter the Prius all over the country, but
they're available easily in Houston.
On the other hand, I gas the Corolla just under once a month.
I suspect people can react adversely to anything and everything except
swallowing appropriate amounts of dihydrogen monoxide.
There are technologies under development to make pig iron using
biomass as fuel. Up to now, that's one of the big industrial processes
that hasn't yet had an alternative without the use of fossil fuel.
Not that "vegan" is a subset of "holistic."
Steak is yummy but oh, boy is it energy inefficient!
––
Visit Charlie's Sneaker Pages!
http://sneakers.pair.com/

No. Vegan refers to eating only food that is derived from plants.
Ovo–lacto vegetarians will also eat egg and dairy products. Beyond
that, some people say they're vegetarian but they also eat fish and/or
chicken. To my mind, if you eat fish and/or chicken, you are by
definition not any kind of vegetarian.
For the record, I'm vegan. And no, I haven't given up the leather I
already own...but someday I might. In the meantime, I do try to lead a
"holistic" lifestyle, as Stevie described so well, but I'm not there
yet. I think all any of us can do, if we want to become more "earth
friendly," is to begin somewhere.
By the way, Zappos has a section called "vegetarian shoes" and some of
them are fabulous. I've already bought a gorgeous pair of black ankle
boots that look like a combination of leather and suede (sorry, I don't
know how to do that link thing to direct you to them). I'm really
proud of them for recognizing and responding to this segment of the
shoe–obsessed market.

"EMiriamD" <emiri...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133723625.159557.299...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Not that "vegan" is a subset of "holistic."
I must take a look at those vegetarian shoes. I respect the decision of
those who choose to be vegan, holistic or vegetarian. I realize that I
get a lot of flack from others for owning seven vehicles, wearing fur
and diamonds and doing a whole lot of other non pc things. I do,
however, recycle and do other things to help the environment. I even
used cloth diapers on the kids when pampers were far more popular. My
husband's relatives are all hunters, and they truthfully do need to do
it to survive in their environment because they farm for someone else
and do not make enough money to feed 50 people (8 families) 2–3 meals a
day. For them it is better than accepting food stamps or other
government handouts.
Audrey

On 4 Dec 2005 11:13:45 –0800, "EMiriamD" wrote:
Not that "vegan" is a subset of "holistic."
And if you're in Oz, only eat the apples that fall off or the trees
will throw apples at you. (Oddly enough, they'd pull off the apples
before they threw them.)
No slaughter involved.
Oddly enough, that didn't stop me from not wanting to eat eggs once I
found out they came out of chickens. (Or so Mom says, I'm not one to
eat anything with the consistency of Chuck insole.)
To be the devil's advocate of meat eating here:
Eats only fish: "Cold–blooded killer of cold–blooded animals."
Eats fish and chicken: "Mammal that won't eat mammals."
If you're going to call yourself vegan and/or vegetarian make it
perfectly clear.
––
Visit Charlie's Sneaker Pages!
http://sneakers.pair.com/

EMD
you might want to check out some of these lines that are more holistic
and in my research on more "holistic" products.. you would be surprised
what I found in fabric things that were fabulously beautiful.. some
were organic skincare and hair care lines (louise galvin for one.. has
an amazing line.. that's so incredibly holistic.. organic as much as
possible'; kimberly sayer makes a terrific eye gel); beautiful
handbags; great clothing from patagonia but also other places.. like
edun and lombstate organically produced cotton and with an eye towards
building and keeping the economy growing and going with those workers
and not outsourcing things..
it's not easy to do a holistic lifestyle. it's more expensive and can
be more time–consuming..
Charlie. here in LA the Prius and other hybrids cost at least 2 K more
than their counterparts and there is a waiting list
Stevie

"ahmward" <nospam.ahmw...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:9tadnZJZfb2v2A7eRVn–...@giganews.com...
[snip]
I realize that I
Whoa, not giving you flack, but seven vehicles? Is this just you, Audrey,
or are you counting vehicles for all the members of your family?
Smokey, trying to imagine a lineup of seven cars in her driveway, since
garage space would be at a serious premium...and what would DH do with his
fleet?

"Smokey" <SmokeyinNewEngl...@yahooey.com> wrote in message
news:_vCdnWQpuKwD–Q7enZ2dnUVZ_tydn...@comcast.com...
It wasn't planned. Two of the three children are in college full time
and two weeks ago the third one was too. This year I was in a car
accident so we bought a 2001 car to replace the car that was totaled.
Child number one drives a Mitsubishi Evo. Child number two was driving
a 1997 Miata but was scared to death to do it another year during the
northern CA rainy season. Child number three has driven a sensible
Honda CRV since her junior year of high school and she is currently a
college senior. The husband had a 1999 GMC Suburban with 110,000 miles
on it and several recent repairs. The Miata driver asked to exchange
cars with him. He then got a great buy on a 2004 Lexus RX330 and the
dealership would give us no more than two thousand dollars for the
Miata. Then child number one asked if we could keep it and he would use
it as a "beater" car to keep his Evo in good condition. It was his first
car. You should be up to six by now. Child number two is my Grateful
Dead loving hippie who always wanted a Volkswagon bus. A "friend" said
his neighbor had just repainted a 1971 camper bus and it looked great.
The price was a steal; little did we know that most of the engine and
interior were crap. We now are on first name basis with the owners of
the repair shop for such vehicles. It was newly painted in #2's
college colors and she was thrilled. It has taken her since June to
learn how to drive it and it still sits in our garage because I can't
even move it off the driveway. So that is the story of how the ahmwards
ended up with seven vehicles. One vehicle is in northern CA, one is in
southern CA, two are garaged, and three are on the driveway. No one told
us 21 years ago to buy a house with more garage space :)
Audrey
(I can see those anti car people here just shaking their heads in
disgust).

"Stevie" <stevie.wil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133732415.383752.308...@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
Stevie, the hybrids also currrently cost as much to run as their
non–hybrid counterparts. Other than my child in southern CA who does
little driving, we are all more than five miles from our schools or
jobs. We have no mass transportation system and if I took the two buses
to work and home, I would have to add an additional two hours or more
instead of my 12 minute drive.
Audrey

Many vegans who eschew egg and dairy have done so because of the
factory farming of animals, not simply the "slaughter factor." My
decision to become vegan was based more on health choices and also
concern about renewable resources. (And let's not forget mad cow and
avian flu. Eek.) But if you learn about how most food animals are
raised, fed, housed and slaughtered, it's pretty awful.
OK. Rant over.

"Ruzinthra the Ruki" <ruzint...@ruki.com> wrote in message
news:a536p1h2apqq6t2qn5hc7bpcfm5fvbk...@4ax.com...
Just because it's currently priced at $750 doesn't mean that anyone is
actually going to pay that much for it. Will it be less ugly when they mark
it down? (There is probably someone whose standards will drop along with
the price.)
The coat Stevie bought from me came from a Sal Val. It's a real
"knockaround". (Stevie, why don't you give it to the kids?!)
cofarb

On 4 Dec 2005 11:13:45 –0800, "EMiriamD" <emiri...@gmail.com>
choked out these words:
Not that "vegan" is a subset of "holistic."
i've never heard of "vegetarians" that also eat chicken, but i
believe the ones that eat fish (et al), are called
"pescatarians."
david
––
http://tinyurl.com/cq76v (ebay sales)
http://www.cafepress.com/derbarbier
http://shops.half.ebay.com/derbarbier

On 4 Dec 2005 13:40:15 –0800, "Stevie" wrote:
Same here.
Not the same here.
I wonder if they peanut–butter a certain level all over the country
when Jim Press (COO, Toyota Motor Sales USA) knows good and well most
of them sell in California.
OTOH, they do get a certain level of "oooh" and "aaah" everywhere
among the geeks, freaks, and early adopters.
––
Visit Charlie's Sneaker Pages!
http://sneakers.pair.com/

On Mon, 05 Dec 2005 00:47:40 GMT, Ruzinthra the Ruki wrote:
"Pescetarian" – fish eater (corrupted Latin)
"Pollotarian" – chicken eater (ditto)
I do tend to verge in the pollotarian direction although not
exclusively. Seems to keep the bad cholesterol in check.
––
Visit Charlie's Sneaker Pages!
http://sneakers.pair.com/

"Stevie" <stevie.wil...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1133748236.383425.143...@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
All three children had after school jobs from the time they were
fourteen. The boy did computer repair and also transferred documents to
the computer. The girls were law librarians. I did the driving to work
until they had their drivers' licenses. The middle child tried walking
but was often followed by persistent drug dealers. Yes, this was in a
"safe" part of town.

"Ruzinthra the Ruki" <ruzint...@ruki.com> wrote in message
news:nf37p15d4oeofu7n2b27hmuk1l38fnl...@4ax.com...
Back in my vegetarian days, we referred to the chicken–eating "vegetarians"
as Cluckatarians.
cofarb

ahmward wrote:
We've had an Accord hybrid for about a year, and that hasn't been our
experience. It gets much better mileage than our 6–cylinder Passat,
and feels like it has about the same amount of power. Maybe you're
including the higher price of hybrids in the cost comparison. We did
get a tax break for buying a hybrid, but I can't remember how much that
offset the higher price.
But knowing that you're driving a car that's emitting so much less
pollution is priceless!! That is the best reason to get a hybrid in my
opinion.
Julianne X

juliann...@yahoo.com wrote:
Same here. We've had a hybrid Civic for two years, and we couldn't be
happier. We put over 35,000 miles on last year getting 48–50+ miles a
gallon. Our last vehicle was an older gas hog, so the hybrid nearly pays
for itself in gas and repair savings. Plus, it is a pretty silvery blue
that is only available for the hybrid version ;)
Someone hit our car this summer right before we went on a two week
driving trip, and we had to drive a rental. We could see a significant
difference in our gas bill even though we got the most fuel efficient
car possible.
I was really mad a few weeks ago when CNN published an incredibly
biased, thwarted "story" about how hybrids aren't worth it. Their
"example" case was someone who didn't drive much so the gas savings
didn't seem significant. The "news story" was specifically pushing some
new Ford that costs more than a typical hybrid and gets half the gas
mileage, so the agenda was pretty obvious. Unfortunately, everyone who
read it got a very distorted view of the truth.
I agree. They do cost a little more, but over the life of the car, most
or all of that is negated by gas savings depending on how much a person
drives. Plus, with the new tax credit, why not buy a car that can make a
significant difference in the environment? Hopefully in the future,
hybrid cars will become the norm.
When we had the rental car this summer, I actually felt guilty and
embarrassed to be seen in a "normal" car since I am now used to a low
emissions vehicle.
mjoann