OT: Moving to San Francisco

Well, it looks like I'll be migrating from the east coast to SFO late
this summer. First things first, I need to decide what neighborhood to
be looking in. I'm in the market for something on the cheaper side
rent–wise (but would rather not live in the foggiest part of town), more
likely to be dog–friendly (I have three), near dog–friendly parks, and
close to UCSF. Oh, and with permit parking so I can park on the street.
Thus far the most popular suggestion has been Cole Valley. It's likely
I'll need to hire someone to find a place for me, so suggestions for
realtors/apartment hunters would be great.
Also, I'm coming with almost nothing and will need to furnish an
apartment as cheaply as possible without the place ending up looking
depressing. As far as clothes shopping, well, it seems like I have no
worries on that front so I figure I can find all the relevant places
myself, being a card–carrying shopaholic.
Any other random SFO advice would also be welcome. I've noticed that
there seem to be a few locals on a.f, so I thought this would be a good
place to ask.
Thanks!
––
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function.
Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
University of Pennsylvania | –– Louis Sullivan
mlch...@sas.upenn.edu |
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

It'll be hard to escape the fog if you want to live near UCSF... But
generally the further east, the less fog.
I'm not sure about the dog park issue, but Golden Gate Park is nearby.
Parking in Cole Valley isn't great. But few neighborhoods have easy parking
(if you go further west, the parking gets better, with the exception of the
Inner Sunset near 9th and Irving... But then you get into the fog issue).
Cole Valley/the Haight is a great neighborhood for young folks, too.
Also, I'd be sure to live either within walking distance of your job/school
or live along the N–Judah Muni line, which runs right to UCSF. The Muni
trains are also much nicer than the buses.
Using an agent may be pricey, as I think the only people who use them
anymore are people whose jobs pay for them. Pretty much everyone uses
Craigslist.org now. You might want to just count on staying in a hotel for
a bit and looking for a place. Or finding a sublet until you find a
permanent home (sublets can be found on craigslist, and since many schools
are on the quarter system, I think many students will be subletting through
September). Better yet, do you have a friend in the Bay Area who would
offer their sofa?
As for furnishing, you may want to look at "roommate listings" and then move
into a bedroom in an already rented apartment. These will likely already be
furnished (and you can find a place whose furnishings you like). Otherwise,
there are a ton of great furniture stores in SF.
Good luck and enjoy SF! It's a great city!
On 2/22/05 1:33 PM, in article cvg8ef$btk...@netnews.upenn.edu, "Melanie L
Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:

In <cvgmuf$dm9...@netnews.upenn.edu> Melanie L Chang wrote:
Three dogs! That's a lot of work. We tried three and well, had to give
one away as the pack attitude was developing and I got tired of getting
into the middle of a dog fight breaking them up. But she got a good
home and the other two are fine with us. I sure hope someone in the
area can help you out finding a place as it'd be tough going in blind
with those doggies.
Good luck and with af on your side, well how can you go wrong :–)
––
Cheers
Dennis
Remove 'Elle–Kabong' to reply

Re:
"Any other random SFO advice would also be welcome. I've noticed that
there seem to be a few locals on a.f, so I thought this would be a good
place to ask."
Be sure to check out North Beach area for "nights out". Good fun and
music at the "Saloon", cafe at Vesuvios, City Lights Book Store for any
kind of reading. Also check out The Mission district for tasteful and
cheap restaurants and bakeries. Plus all kinds of neat fashion finds.
And of course "the Haight", the Asian Art Museum (this is a WOW!), Ocean
Beach, etc. etc. Take a ferry to Sausalito & ask for a transfer to the
bus that goes to the north end of Sausalito and at your leisure walk up
and down the many houseboat docks. These homeboats are amazing––from
huge floating homes to WWII landingcrafts made into homes. I was glad I
took the trip over~~especially when the sun was shining and the tide was
in.

Well, since I live in the East Bay I'm pretty sure I can't help, but I
did want to say hello & welcome back to AF. I remember and enjoyed
your posts in the past.
I think Claire's got a lot of good suggestions and hopefully Wicked
Witch will see your post as well and answer.
Celia

Don't know much about SF, but what I really want to know, is have you
finally graduated?
I intend to soon, if only I could get some faculty members to give me A
HALF HOUR to participate in my research!

slatermeli...@hotmail.com (slatermeli...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: Also, I'd be sure to live either within walking distance of your job/school
: or live along the N–Judah Muni line, which runs right to UCSF. The Muni
: trains are also much nicer than the buses.
Thanks –– I'll need to be close for the dogs' sake.
: Using an agent may be pricey, as I think the only people who use them
: anymore are people whose jobs pay for them. Pretty much everyone uses
: Craigslist.org now. You might want to just count on staying in a hotel for
: a bit and looking for a place. Or finding a sublet until you find a
: permanent home (sublets can be found on craigslist, and since many schools
: are on the quarter system, I think many students will be subletting through
: September). Better yet, do you have a friend in the Bay Area who would
: offer their sofa?
I do, but since I'll be bringing three dogs I'm reluctant to impose on
someone. My understanding is it can take some time to find a place, and
being as how I have three dogs it'll be even worse. A sublet is a good
idea, again, if they're OK with the dog issue.
I'm worried about finances. One of my dogs is not good with strangers ––
for that and other reasons I'd really prefer to live alone. If I had
roommates he'd have to be locked up almost all the time, and we can't
live like that. It seems, from looking at Craigslist, that suitable
one–bedroom places are out there –– if I can afford them.
Thanks!
––
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function.
Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
University of Pennsylvania | –– Louis Sullivan
mlch...@sas.upenn.edu |
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

Also just remembered that UCSF has a listing for apartments (you can find it
by fishing around on the ucsf website). I'm sure many are also on
craigslist, but maybe not...
On 2/22/05 5:40 PM, in article cvgmuf$dm9...@netnews.upenn.edu, "Melanie L
Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:

Ruddell (ruddell'Elle–Kabo...@canada.com) wrote:
: Three dogs! That's a lot of work. We tried three and well, had to give
: one away as the pack attitude was developing and I got tired of getting
: into the middle of a dog fight breaking them up. But she got a good
: home and the other two are fine with us.
I know a number of people who had to rehome a dog due to the kids not all
playing well together. It happens. Sounds like you found a good
solution for all of you.
I'm lucky, mine all get along. It turned out that the one who's
behaviorally the weirdest is a pretty good crew boss when it comes to
this particular pack.
One of mine is really small, so I usually tell people I have 2.25 dogs.
http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~mlchang/three.html
––
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function.
Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
University of Pennsylvania | –– Louis Sullivan
mlch...@sas.upenn.edu |
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

In <cvjbuk$f3s...@netnews.upenn.edu> Melanie L Chang wrote:
They're beautiful! All 2.25 of 'em ;–) Here's a look at ours...well,
Molly passed away and Daisy is the one we had to find a new home for.
Sad, but after Eve grew up, they just didn't get along :–(
http://www.ratbagandmooch.net/dogs/
––
Cheers
Dennis
Remove 'Elle–Kabong' to reply

Ruddell (ruddell'Elle–Kabo...@canada.com) wrote:
: They're beautiful! All 2.25 of 'em ;–) Here's a look at ours...well,
: Molly passed away and Daisy is the one we had to find a new home for.
: Sad, but after Eve grew up, they just didn't get along :–(
: http://www.ratbagandmooch.net/dogs/
Gorgeous. Especially Molly! I love her –– she looks so feral.
Who's Georgie? Looks like a Sheltie mix.
––
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function.
Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
University of Pennsylvania | –– Louis Sullivan
mlch...@sas.upenn.edu |
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

"Melanie L Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:cvg8ef$btk...@netnews.upenn.edu...
Melanie, It sounds like the advice you've already received is good. The
foggiest areas in any proximity to UCSF are the Richmond and the Sunset. The
warmest and sunniest part of town is generally the Mission, and Potrero Hill
across the fwy is pretty sunny, too. (BTW, UCSF has a campus at Mission Bay,
a redevelopment area north of Potrero Hill, and they operate a shuttle bus
between the two campuses. I don't know about the hours/frequency, but I'm
sure you can find that out from the university if living out there and
shuttling in is an option.) A lot of people trying to rent for less live in
the Mission. Noe Valley is also pretty sunny but considered desirable for
certain groups and thus will cost more.
I would say that Cole Valley is "it" for you except that there isn't much of
a park, mainly just a grassy area next to where the streetcar exits the
tunnel, and where some homeless hang out. CV is a super dog–friendly area,
so I presume that little strip gets lots of dog use. There are always labs
and other dogs outside of Tully's, Zazie, and Boulange de Cole. You can
easily walk to UCSF from there. The neighborhood is nice and there's a great
pharmacy there with lots of good body product lines (Pharmaca). It is
moderately foggy there, meaning that when the fog is clearing, it sometimes
clears from CV completely and sometimes clears only a little or not at all.
It is not as sunny as around the east side of Twin Peaks where I live, but
not as foggy as the Richmond/Sunset. Depending on where you situate yourself
in CV, you might be 4–5 blocks from GG Park, or further. The parts of the
neighborhood I prefer are the ones furthest from the park.
If you are considering the Haight, the fog situation is about the same as
for CV. Rents are higher considering what you get and what you have to put
up with in terms of neighbors and on the street. JMO. But there are always
people desiring to live there because of the history and other reasons, so
that keeps rents up, even for dilapidated housing.
I think you are correct that it will be a challenge to find a place for 3
dogs. At least there are more rentals around right now than there were a few
years ago, and they stay on the market longer. From what I can tell, this is
mainly a "one large dog" or "two small dogs at most" town.
Craigslist.org is definitely your answer. In the Bay Area, especialy in the
city, we live by Craigs and it's an institution here. Everybody I know on
the landlord and tenant sides uses Craigs. (The real Craig lives in Cole
Valley, BTW.) If you are going to be working at UCSF maybe there are people
in your department who can help with the word of mouth. I'll keep my eyes
open for you.
Parking permit means you can park on the street instead of being limited by
the 2–hr parking signs. It does not necessarily mean you'll find a spot.
Parking is difficult in most parts of town. Many people rent unused garage
space from buildings in their neighborhood if they don't find a place that
comes with parking.
BTW, SFO refers to the airport, like LAX and JFK. Some people call the city
SF (ess–eff) but when we say SFO we mean the airport :) I'm sure you don't
want to live at the airport, lol. And it's quite foggy there!
We can give you random advice on anything you want, just ask! :)
Claire

I lived on 3rd and Parnassus right by UCSF and it's really foggy and
cold there. Move up (towards downtown) a few streets and you'll get more
sunshine and warmth. Apartments are really expensive in SF. Why don't
you live in the East Bay near a BART Station and commute to work? How
about Berkeley? It's a lot warmer and sunnier there.
Evie
Melanie L Chang wrote:

Evie,
Great suggestion...I remember when I went to college in SF...I lived in
Concord, a bit further out than Berkely. Took BART in every day to
school/work. I got more for my money out in the East Bay. The commute
was not too bad either. I remember it being extremely warm in the
summers in the East Bay where I lived but about 20 degrees cooler in the
city.
Love, Laughter, and Friendship,
Lisa
www.beautycafe.com
Evie wrote:

Evie (lemoncl...@planet–nojunk.nl) wrote:
: I lived on 3rd and Parnassus right by UCSF and it's really foggy and
: cold there. Move up (towards downtown) a few streets and you'll get more
: sunshine and warmth. Apartments are really expensive in SF. Why don't
: you live in the East Bay near a BART Station and commute to work? How
: about Berkeley? It's a lot warmer and sunnier there.
I dunno –– I thought about it, but I'd really rather live in the city
itself, within walking distance of campus. That way I can get home at
lunch to walk the dogs (I'm working in a lab dealing with dog DNA, so I'm
guessing they won't be able to come in with me). Also, the East Bay is
apparently becoming very dog unfriendly, in that pretty much none of the
parks allow dogs off leash and my dogs must have somewhere they can
exercise freely. Two are Border Collies, and one is a very manic
Papillon who lost two homes before me for being an Energizer Bunny.
Berkeley might be an option, especially since I'm planning on sitting in
on classes there, but is it really any cheaper or easier?
If I'm going to commute, I don't want to be on a train for more than 20
minutes. Not sure how far out that will get me.
––
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function.
Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
University of Pennsylvania | –– Louis Sullivan
mlch...@sas.upenn.edu |
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

The BART from downtown Berkeley, to SF, and then the N–Judah (bus) to UCSF
would take you 45 minutes, not counting any wait time for the BART and bus.
I'm estimating 20 minutes on BART and 25 on the N–Judah. This method is a
little pricey for an everyday commute, too –– I think BART will run you
close to $3 each way, and the N–Judah is $1, but there are passes available
for the bus. Alternatively, you can ride as a "casual commuter" to SF and
then take the N–Judah. In the ever–friendly East Bay, drivers and riders
team up at designated spots so as to ride in the freeway carpool lanes (and
avoid toll on the Golden Gate).
As for Berkeley rents, it depends on where you want to live in Berkeley. If
you want to live near the Berkeley campus, in the Berkeley hills, or in the
Elmwood area, expect to pay a premium. Rents here are comparable to rents
in Cole Valley (if not more). The large student population keeps demand
high near campus.
About living in the Mission, I'd definitely check out the place (or have a
friend check out the place) before committing. While there are great places
in the Mission, there are definitely some less desirable places ––
especially for a young woman living alone.
I highly recommend the Inner Sunset area. It's foggier than CV, but it's a
nice neighborhood –– good restaurants, cafes, grocery stores, cheaper
apartments, parking, closer to GG park.
The thing about SF fog is that the fog rolls in from west to east. So, by
living a wee bit further east, the fog rolls out earlier and rolls back in
later. If you're going to spend most weekdays at UCSF, you may very well
leave for work in the fog and return home from work in the fog whether you
live in CV or the Inner Sunset (or any immediate environs). Weekends,
though, are another story. The Mission and Noe Valley are protected by
hills, so they often get to avoid any fog at all.
Good luck!
On 2/23/05 5:54 PM, in article cvjc4t$f3s...@netnews.upenn.edu, "Melanie L
Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:

Wow! Thanks for all the good advice.
Claire in SF (clairi...@aol.com) wrote:
: Melanie, It sounds like the advice you've already received is good. The
: foggiest areas in any proximity to UCSF are the Richmond and the Sunset.
How foggy is foggy? Like miserable, seasonal affective disorder inducing
foggy? Or just not sunny?
I can live without direct sun (after all, it sounds like walking a few
blocks in any given direction will give me that) but if it's cold and
clammy that'll be bad... I get cold easily. (On the other hand, the
Border Collies love cold, damp Scottish–type weather.)
: across the fwy is pretty sunny, too. (BTW, UCSF has a campus at Mission Bay,
: a redevelopment area north of Potrero Hill, and they operate a shuttle bus
: between the two campuses. I don't know about the hours/frequency, but I'm
: sure you can find that out from the university if living out there and
: shuttling in is an option.) A lot of people trying to rent for less live in
: the Mission.
Good to know –– I have been looking at Craigslist and found that rents
seem to be lower in the Mission.
: I would say that Cole Valley is "it" for you except that there isn't much of
: a park, mainly just a grassy area next to where the streetcar exits the
: tunnel, and where some homeless hang out. CV is a super dog–friendly area,
: so I presume that little strip gets lots of dog use.
Well, here's my thinking. Cole Valley is within a few blocks' distance
Golden Gate Park, some green stuff near UCSF campus (my map says "interior
green belt") and Buena Vista park. There's "Grattan Playground" (also on
my map) that I think might be the green strip you're talking about. I
don't need a formal dog run –– I actually don't use them, since Solo (my
male Border Collie) doesn't like to play with dogs he doesn't already
know. What I do here in Philly is go to the local soccer field and use it
when no one else is. So, I just need enough green space to be able to
throw a ball about 50 yards, where there won't be a zillion retrievers
trying to steal it and starting fights with Solo.
Am I completely on the wrong track?
: not as foggy as the Richmond/Sunset. Depending on where you situate yourself
: in CV, you might be 4–5 blocks from GG Park, or further. The parts of the
: neighborhood I prefer are the ones furthest from the park.
I can live with a walk of a few blocks, as long as there are a couple of
trees or hydrants around for the late–night pee closer to home. My dogs
usually get one or two hours of exercise a day, so we don't do the quick
runs to the park just to pee thing anyway, may as well make it a trek.
: If you are considering the Haight, the fog situation is about the same as
: for CV. Rents are higher considering what you get and what you have to put
: up with in terms of neighbors and on the street. JMO.
That's what I figured –– it must be like living near South Street here in
Philadelphia. Lots of bars, lots of young people out having fun. Fun to
visit, but I would never live down there. Also, Solo would go bonkers.
: I think you are correct that it will be a challenge to find a place for 3
: dogs. At least there are more rentals around right now than there were a few
: years ago, and they stay on the market longer.
I started watching Craigslist last fall, when this post–doc became a
possibility. There were a few apartments that sounded like just what I
was looking for (one bedroom, near UCSF, access to a backyard,
dog–friendly) but they stayed available for much longer than I thought
they would –– I mean, weeks. It made me think there must be something
really wrong with those apartments. But, with three dogs I probably
can't be that picky anyway.
: Craigslist.org is definitely your answer. In the Bay Area, especialy in the
: city, we live by Craigs and it's an institution here. Everybody I know on
: the landlord and tenant sides uses Craigs. (The real Craig lives in Cole
: Valley, BTW.) If you are going to be working at UCSF maybe there are people
: in your department who can help with the word of mouth. I'll keep my eyes
: open for you.
That would be great, thanks!
: Parking permit means you can park on the street instead of being limited by
: the 2–hr parking signs. It does not necessarily mean you'll find a spot.
That's what it's like in my neighborhood in Philly now (near Rittenhouse
Square). I don't have a permit, so I park several blocks away where the
parking is 24 hour. Sometimes I park in my neighborhood, and I've
circled anywhere from 10 to 45 minutes looking for a space. Is the
parking situation even worse than that? I saw some spaces for rent on
Craigslist that were around $25 a month but that sounds ridiculously
cheap. Around here it's $125 minimum.
: BTW, SFO refers to the airport, like LAX and JFK.
Ooh, thanks for letting me know. A couple of my friends used "SFO" to
refer to the city and I thought I was being so cool and "in the loop" by
using it myself. Hey, I'm just an East Coast gal moving to Cali for the
first time.
: We can give you random advice on anything you want, just ask! :)
I will!
Thanks so much. I've saved your post and am putting it in my
"California here I come" folder.
––
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function.
Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
University of Pennsylvania | –– Louis Sullivan
mlch...@sas.upenn.edu |
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

"Melanie L Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:cvjda2$emc...@netnews.upenn.edu...
It is not actually foggy in the winter that much and, in fact, the entire
city might be overcast for a while or just not clear up. But in the summer
we get the fog pattern which is our natural a/c, so we get chilly instead of
heat wave. It's nothing compared to winter temps in other parts of the
country, though. The foggier parts of town will stay in the 50's, sort of
damp, and may not see sun at all during June–Aug and perhaps a bit during
other seasons, depending. I conciser it SAD–inducing, JMO. It is not unsual
for people to wear coats and/or wool sweaters in the summer. CV will see
some summer sun from probably 11–4 during those times. The outer Sunset and
Richmond may not clear at all. Believe it or not, even though UCSF is only
blocks away from CV the weather is less sunny at UCSF. Can you say
microclimates (lol)?
Bay,
bus
I'm
in
much of
area,
AFAIK Grattan Playgound is blacktop/cement (adjacent to Grattan Elementary
School). There could be a green area. I'll check next time I'm there, which
could be tomrrow. Buena Vista is a hill with some paths and lots of trees.
It used to be creepy but has cleaned up its act. The long rectangular green
strip between the very busy Fell and Oak Sts is the "panhandle" of GG Park.
It is a flat, open area with a few trees and a path around it. Heavily used.
Good for dogs.
yourself
the
as
put
Homeless, runaway teens, burned out hippie types, in addition to young
shoppers and the people who live in the area.
3 few
the
on
Cole
people
eyes
by
No, the pkg situation it not worse than that. In other parts of town (like
downtown) it would be $100 to $120 but it could easily be less in more
residential and less dense parts of town. I don't know what my neighbors pay
for their additional spaces. I don't think you'd have to circle for 45 mins
but after 6 on weeknights it could take some time and you might have to park
4–6 blocks. The closer to Haight

"Melanie L Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote in message
news:cvjc4t$f3s...@netnews.upenn.edu...
Based on what you've shared about the area in which you currently live, you
might be more at home SF rather than the suburbs. Berkeley does indeed have
what I think is the perfect weather, but the commute to UCSF is at least an
hour in one direction considering BART and MUNI, or driving (and then there
is the daytime parking nightmare at UCSF if you don't have a residential
permit). You'll see that in the winter the weather is the same everywhere in
the Bay Area (generalizing a bit), and in the spring and fall it can be
quite nice in the city though slightly more foggy in the outer Sunset and
Richmond. It's the summer when we get the big distinctions and the town is
not completely fogged in (just the tourist meccas like Fishermans' Wharf,
parts of downtown, and the neighborhoods that are closer to the ocean).
For a 20–minute commute and better weather than CV you're probably looking
at the Mission/Noe Valley (closer to Church or Dolores rather than Market
St) or the periphery of the Castro and Duboce Triangle. However many people
are very happy in CV, they just wear fleece a bit more. There can really be
a difference between 3rd and Parnassus and CV during certain times of year,
because of the hill on which UCSF sits. For example, where I live, the fog
clears much sooner than it does three blocks away. Microclimates.
Claire

slatermeli...@hotmail.com (slatermeli...@hotmail.com) wrote:
: The BART from downtown Berkeley, to SF, and then the N–Judah (bus) to UCSF
: would take you 45 minutes, not counting any wait time for the BART and bus.
Ugh. That's out, then. My goal in life is to never be a frustrated
commuter.
: for the bus. Alternatively, you can ride as a "casual commuter" to SF and
: then take the N–Judah. In the ever–friendly East Bay, drivers and riders
: team up at designated spots so as to ride in the freeway carpool lanes (and
: avoid toll on the Golden Gate).
That's what people do in the DC metro area to get into DC; they're called
"slugs" and they form "slug lines." If you do this to get to work, it's
called "slugging."
: About living in the Mission, I'd definitely check out the place (or have a
: friend check out the place) before committing. While there are great places
: in the Mission, there are definitely some less desirable places ––
: especially for a young woman living alone.
Good point. Although, with three dogs I tend to be a little less afraid
than most women living alone would be –– still, I like a safer
neighborhood. The one I live in now, I am pretty comfortable even if the
dogs have an emergency and have to go out at 3 or 4 AM.
: I highly recommend the Inner Sunset area. It's foggier than CV, but it's a
: nice neighborhood –– good restaurants, cafes, grocery stores, cheaper
: apartments, parking, closer to GG park.
Thanks. "Inner Sunset" –– is that the part that is closer to UCSF? I
think Craigslist has an "Inner Sunset/UCSF" neighborhood category.
––
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––
Melanie Lee Chang | Form ever follows function.
Departments of Anthropology and Biology |
University of Pennsylvania | –– Louis Sullivan
mlch...@sas.upenn.edu |
–––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

<slatermeli...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:BE427F8C.10681%slatermeli...@hotmail.com...
bus.
available
(and
If
the
places
ITA with this. While I know many women who live there, I would feel a little
uncomfortable in some of their apts. It does depend on the specific street
and on the person. Also, Noe Valley is very suitable, yet parts of it get
super windy in the afternoon due to the wind coming down from Twin Peaks.
a FYI, Melanie, GG is not a sunny paradise in summer. It's often foggy there.
For the reason described below.

Melanie
Not sure if you are still riding but apparantly there is a Riding Barn
somewhere by Golden Gate Park...I am sure someone here can give you
better information on it!!
Love, Laughter, and Friendship,
Lisa
www.beautycafe.com
Melanie L Chang wrote:

On 2/24/05 11:09 AM, in article cvl8q7$fqr...@netnews.upenn.edu, "Melanie L
Chang" <mlch...@mail1.sas.upenn.edu> wrote:
I'd worry more about when you go out without the dogs –– weekends or a late
night at work –– and have to come home alone.
Yep, I think it's loosely defined as the avenues east of (aka less than)
19th Avenue. Ninth Avenue is the heart of the Inner Sunset.

In <cvl8jc$fqr...@netnews.upenn.edu> Melanie L Chang wrote:
Yeah, Molly was a dear friend. But she got very sick and we had to put
her asleep a couple of years ago. It was a sad time for us.
Georgie is an Australian shepherd mix. She's almost 13 now and is
starting to slow down, but still fun and loving her walk everyday.
––
Cheers
Dennis
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