Straight Eye for the Queer Guy

The stereotypical premise of the show bothers me. There, I said it.
That movie was something of a pivotal cinematic moment in my life. When I saw
Dan Aykroyd getting shaved and his valet opening up THAT CLOSET...that's the
moment I said "THAT! I want to live like THAT!"
Extra–primo good, Mr. Cullman, sir...
–Joe in SoFla
"They're such beautiful shirts. It makes me sad because I've never seen such –
such beautiful shirts before." Daisy Buchanan in F. Scott Fitzgerald's _The
Great Gatsby_ (or Trilby, at 29 Newbury...I forget)

I think the show is fun.
I think it's meant to be entertainment, not social commentary.
I think, a lot of TV is stereotypes.
Heres a sit com plot:
The hapless dad, the grouchy mom, the cute precocious kid or kids.
Yawn.
Madge

Madge said:
Thank you for encapsulating why I no longer watch any TV (save for Food
Network).
–Joe in SoFla
"They're such beautiful shirts. It makes me sad because I've never seen such –
such beautiful shirts before." Daisy Buchanan in F. Scott Fitzgerald's _The
Great Gatsby_ (or Trilby, at 29 Newbury...I forget)

jmgarci...@aol.complain (Jpoijhgwedfg M. Gtgiokjhderfg Jr.) wrote in
news:20030718154835.13054.00000...@mb–m10.aol.com:
And it was a fine thing to say, too.
I haven't seen the show yet, although the lovely and talented Mrs. Userb3
taped it, so I'll see it this weekend.
But the stereotypes bother me on both counts. The notion that all gays are
flitting little queens who have an innate knowledge of all things
fashionable and cultural not only doesn't hold water, but plays well into
the whole "girly man" stereotype.
Similarly, the notion that straight men are one step above cro–magnon man
and go through life clueless about fashion, food, culture, or women is an
obvious insult.
So while I'l give the show a shot, its starting off with a strike against
it (that is, if the notion of a male AF regular using a sports expression
doesn't violate someone's stereotype)

Userb3, you're reading the premise as a universal principle.. Nowhere is there
a suggestion that all gay men are neat and all straight men are slobs. Can we
assume in 2003 that straight people have had enough contact with gays to know
that they don't conform to a single stereotype?

jmgarci...@aol.complain (Jpoijhgwedfg M. Gtgiokjhderfg Jr.) wrote in
news:20030718220430.21731.00000...@mb–m07.aol.com:
Well put.

On 19 Jul 2003 02:04:30 GMT, jmgarci...@aol.complain (Jpoijhgwedfg M.
Gtgiokjhderfg Jr.) wrote:
With your four major networks owned by General Electric, News
Corporation, Viacom, and Disney... wouldn't you expect stereotypes?

CLP sez:
Oh, I am cynical enough to expect them from the Big 4, end even the Medium 2
but it's still annoying.
–Joe in SoFla
I don't care, and you can't make me.

On 19 Jul 2003 02:04:30 GMT, while driving the porcelain bus,
jmgarci...@aol.complain (Jpoijhgwedfg M. Gtgiokjhderfg Jr.) wailed
loudly and vomited the words:
<snip>
why would it be acceptable for a TV program to play to *any*
stereotype? and why are you only focusing on this show? cos it's the
thread title? why not talk about some other show while we're at it?
david
––
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/derbarbier/
(ebay sales)
http://shops.half.com/derbarbier
stickneedlesinme at mindspring dot com

Maladicta1 wrote:
sadly, no. at least not where I live. even people whom I had considered
relatively enlightened just don't "get" gay, bi–sexual, or even worse
(gasp!), trans–gendered folks. I think it's tragic. when I lived in
Minneapolis, people were much more aware and accepting. here in Texas,
even in supposedly liberal Austin, it's pretty damned bad.
I haven't seen the show, so I have no opinion about it.
–Diane

"Diane Hardin" <dia...@naming–schemes.org> wrote in message
news:3F189963.5080...@naming–schemes.org...
It's probably worse where I live, which is described as the buckle of the
California
Bible belt. A friend refers to one of her daughter's roommates as "Gay
soandso"
This is so people don't think, heaven forbid, that she is a single female
living with
a straight guy. I've tried to explain that she should drop the name and
just use his
actual name, but my comments fall upon deaf ears.
Audrey

maladic...@aol.com (Maladicta1) wrote in news:20030720154120.21731.0000035...@mb–m07.aol.com:
GLAAD and I are capable of reaching independent conclusions.

maladic...@aol.com (Maladicta1) wrote in
news:20030718204454.02873.00000...@mb–m19.aol.com:
If that weren't the implication, why make it a point of citing the
sexuality of the participants in the title?
Can we assume in 2003 that straight people have had
No, we can't assume that.

Because that's the show's premise–five gay men make over a straight guy. I
don't see how you get a universal principle out of that.
Then we can assume that the stereotype of the gay man as style maven is
nonthreatening to straight America. So maybe they'll tune in and see five
funny, creative guys who, despite what Joel said, are not screaming queens who
squeal and prance. (Well, one is but the other four really aren't.) And if
they watch for awhile, maybe they'll find themselves liking these men and
reevaluating their prejudices.
It could happen.

maladic...@aol.com (Maladicta1) wrote in
news:20030719031815.13017.00000...@mb–m10.aol.com:
If that weren't the implication, why make it a point of citing the
sexuality of the participants in the title?
You don't see the stereotypes there?

Because that's the show's premise–five gay men make over a straight
guy. I don't see how you get a universal principle out of that.
No, I don't read it to say all gay men are interested in style and all straight
men are slobs. I also didn't see fiving screaming queens when I watched the
show. I'm amused by the suggestion that a positive image of a gay man is
someone in a non–creative field with a deep voice and no sense of style or
humor whatsoever.
In short, I have no idea where you, Joel and Joe are coming from.

Mal said:
straight
I read it as follows:
1– Homosexual men are (maybe not 100% of the time, but close enough to be true)
inherently the most proficient in matters of apparel, grooming and style.
This is a stereotype. The show plays to that stereotype. (i.e., "Queer Eye")
2– Heterosexual men are (maybe not 100% of the time, but close enough to be
true) inherently stuck somewhere between hapless and hopeless in matters of
apparel, grooming and style.
This is a stereotype. The show plays to that stereotype. (i.e., "Straight Guy")
Otherwise...why give the show such a title? Why not call it "Male Makeovers?"
Why highlight the orientation of the Makeover–ers and the Makeover–ee?
I am at a complete and utter loss to find another way of looking at this.
But the show doesn't have to portray *outrageous* examples of a stereotype to
portray a stereotype. Italians don't have to be portrayed as mobsters to be
stereotyped, [Insert subgroup] don't have to be portrayed as [insert purported
trait or characteristic], etc. to be stereotyped.
I have no idea who made that suggestion. It was not I, said The Little Red Hen.
However, I would guess there are such humorless, non–creative, basso–profundo,
style–deprived types.
However, by choosing to highlight a set of stereotypical characteristics it
gives the impression that certain types of people have certain predisposition
to excellence in certain fields. The fact we are all cosmopolitan sophisticates
and can see past stereotypes does not mean that:
1– Stereotypes are not present; or
2– That certain non–cosmopolitan, unsophisticates will be able to take this
with a grain of salt.
Well, it's only fair that we have reciprocity.
:–)
–Joe in SoFla
I don't care, and you can't make me.

maladic...@aol.com (Maladicta1) wrote in
news:20030720160817.21731.00000...@mb–m07.aol.com:
GLAAD and I are capable of reaching independent conclusions.
I wasn't aware there was a contest to determone the most authoritative
voice.

On 20 Jul 2003 17:55:38 GMT, while driving the porcelain bus,
Userb3 <use...@yahoo.com> wailed loudly and vomited the words:
so you believe that all gays are creative and all straight men
are slobs? if so, you've got another think coming.
david
––
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/derbarbier/
(ebay sales)
http://shops.half.com/derbarbier
stickneedlesinme at mindspring dot com

Diane Hardin <dia...@naming–schemes.org> wrote in news:3F1B067A.104090...@naming–schemes.org:
so you believe that all gays are creative and all straight men
are slobs? if so, you've got another think coming.
Thanks. That's correct.

maladic...@aol.com (Maladicta1) wrote in
news:20030719180158.10444.00000...@mb–m05.aol.com:
Because that's the show's premise–five gay men make over a straight
guy. I don't see how you get a universal principle out of that.
You don't see the stereotypes there?
Putting aside the fact that there is a difference between a universal
principal (all women are female) and a stereotype (all women are vain),
the base premise for the show is a pair of stereotypes. Without those
stereotypes, we wouldn't care that the hosts are gay and the "victim" is
straight. It wouldn't matter.
I didn't see that suggestion. It's entirely possible that the "Fab 5" are
a positive image. What I objected to was the use of stereotypes,not
whether the stereotype was positive or not. I'd have the same reaction is
the show featured 5 Asian honor students tutoring an African American
student in math.
Then I suppose we have something in common. I can't imagine how even a
fan of the show can fail to see the use of stereotype. It's possible that
the show is such a positive portrayal of gay/straight understanding and
friendship that it overcomes the use of the stereotype. But the
stereotype is there, and it bothers me.

On 19 Jul 2003 21:43:25 GMT, while driving the porcelain bus, Userb3
<use...@yahoo.com> wailed loudly and vomited the words:
nope. one's a designer, one's a what? a hairdresser? i don't know,
i didn't watch. sure, they're all guys. if they'd gotten a lesbian
interior decorator, or even a str8 one, the show might not be as
entertaining.
but i still don't see how anyone's being stereotyped.
david
––
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On 19 Jul 2003 02:21:03 GMT, while driving the porcelain bus, Userb3
<use...@yahoo.com> wailed loudly and vomited the words:
cos it's catchy. how's this for a title: "Homosexual eye for the
heterosexual guy"?
can we assume that the ones who watch Bravo have?
david
––
http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/derbarbier/
(ebay sales)
http://shops.half.com/derbarbier
stickneedlesinme at mindspring dot com

On 18 Jul 2003 21:19:25 GMT, while driving the porcelain bus, Userb3
<use...@yahoo.com> wailed loudly and vomited the words:
ok, here's my take – as a homosexual man. i didn't see the show,
either, BTW.
my take is the gays on the show were just some guys that the producers
picked. i know plenty of other gay men, most of whom aren't "nelly"
and don't act queeny or like girls, or whatever. i know cooks,
janitors, hairdressers, barbers, convenience store workers, etc who
aren't queeny at all. i even know a guy who sells futures. ya know,
they just picked these guys and they happened to be queeny – that's
what i think. then again, i know construction workers who are known
to be queeny at times, but not always.
FWIW, i don't think that anyone's being stereotyped on the show. i
believe that the gay men on the show are just being themselves. or
maybe not. maybe they are, as someone else suggested, just camping it
up for the camera.
ya know, who cares? really. it's supposed to be a fun show, and not
(like someone else suggested) social commentary.
all you heterosexual people who think that the gays on this show are
being stereotyped should just hush up. if i watch NYPD Blue and
there's a heterosexual man on there who kills a bunch of women, should
i believe that the character is a stereotypical straight man? uh, no.
neither should anyone believe that the gays on "Queer Eye for the
Straight Guy" are being stereotyped.
"there, i said it."
david
––
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Actually David it's not just the stereotypes on this show that I find
bothersome. How many shows have we seen where dad is a total a–hole? And I'm
more than a bit tired of seeing more "brilliant and heroic cops. "
The gay community has worked really hard over the past couple of decades to
overcome prejudice and streotypes. Gay marriages are now permitted in Canada
and Massachussets is actually considering a bill (which I suspect won't pass).
In my world anyone can be and do whatever he or she wants to do. I'm hardly
qualified to judge anything. But I think the producers of this show are
reinforcing stereotypes . And maybe it wouldn't be as entertaining if these
guys were odd lot traders and sanitation men. The short view is "...well it's
entertainment and it's amusing." The long view is ".....Hmmm is it
potentially counter–productive ?" I can't answer that question.
joel
Richard Hunter wrote:

rhymewriter <rhymewriteryour...@hotmailyourhat.com> wrote in
news:o3rrhv0fd96faoirqm9gku4k4gc8sl2...@4ax.com:
Not by thy many gay men whose only difference with their straight neighbors
is their sexual preference.